tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post6061890656209282259..comments2024-03-21T22:36:54.451-04:00Comments on HISTORIES OF THINGS TO COME: DCU Continuity for Terra: Part 4.1 - The Anti-Robin: Terra in the 2010sLC Douglasshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-55881373312322629732020-01-30T11:19:57.966-05:002020-01-30T11:19:57.966-05:00Hello! First I want to say I'm a big fan of yo...Hello! First I want to say I'm a big fan of your writings on Titans continuity and what a mess DC has made of it and the characters for the past couple decades. <br /><br />Second, if someone hasn't mentioned it already, I highly recommend you check out the Rebirth Deathstroke run (recently wrapped up at #50) by Christopher Priest as well his own personal blog posts (http://lamerciepark.com/wp/) and interviews on the series (This is a good, recent one involving Terra : http://www.multiversitycomics.com/interviews/priest-interview/) He discusses the frustration he had with people forgetting Slade is a villain with a lot of the things he's done in the past, including the whole Terra situation which he goes into more detail on how he wanted to handle it and how much DC would let him. Priest makes it clear he doesn't see Terra as innocent in that even before meeting Slade she was a killer, but also acknowledges her as a victim and believes letting Slade off for what he did to her is stupid and destructive. Using mainly Wolfman's work as inspiration, Priest managed to write a Slade Wilson who while is a complicated man who loves his family deep down, he is still ultimately a villain and he doesn't sugar coat it. I don't want to spoil too much as it an interesting run with so many details to list, but he does bring in Terra during the Defiance Arc (basically his take on a Dark Titans team. DS Vol 4 "Defiance" & vol 5 "Fall of Slade" tpb). A Judas Contract-like event does happen following similar beats of Slade recruiting Terra to infiltrate the Titans and avenge Grant's death, but Terra gets to walk away alive and lead a life of her own afterwards. Slade/Terra is still there, but it's more honest in Slade being the manipulator here. I don't think I can adequately summarize the run especially the handling of Terra, but it is worth checking out for more material for your blog. I'm also happy to add that the series reminds everyone the importance of the Wilson family as whole and does more with them besides killing or villainifying the non-Rose members for Slade's angst. The biggest problem is DC's continuity for Titans is still a mess and we didn't see important moments of Terra interacting with Gar in Rebirth yet in the final issue of Heroes in Crisis, Gar has a session where where he says he misses Tara. From what I've seen of HiC, continuity is a big mess with all the characters and references featured. Supposedly there's yet another reboot in the wings, because of course DC.<br /><br /> See also The Lazarus Contract a crossover of Deathstroke and the two Titans titles at the time. Terra isn't present (iirc Priest did originally want her there) but it shows us a deal that Slade and Dick Grayson came to that did help lead to Terra not dying.<br /> <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-35805469268755225422020-01-26T19:17:57.737-05:002020-01-26T19:17:57.737-05:00Yes, the idea is that the right eye is covered to ...Yes, the idea is that the right eye is covered to expose the left eye alone. Google 'left eye symbology' and 'left eye club' or 'black eye club'- Kinnigan on Youtube discusses the latter.LC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-40038600090600169562020-01-26T03:19:30.566-05:002020-01-26T03:19:30.566-05:00Just an observation- Greta is covering her right e...Just an observation- Greta is covering her right eye, not her left... Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-77578910780953700052019-12-14T20:51:47.627-05:002019-12-14T20:51:47.627-05:00Thanks for the link Anon. Some characters fit non-...Thanks for the link Anon. Some characters fit non-comics media better, maybe because of the nature of the character, perhaps because production processes are different. The Titans look pretty good in video games and the television show https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz0c6EEd1Io<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgi1tnX6lzwLC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-14821284059136342972019-12-13T19:09:52.580-05:002019-12-13T19:09:52.580-05:00Iron Man used to be a B-tier Marvel character. Now...Iron Man used to be a B-tier Marvel character. Now he is the main character of the biggest franchise in the history of Hollywood. Now Tony Stark is one of the faces of Disney's ever-growing conglomerate, alongside the likes of Mickey Mouse, Darth Vader and Homer Simpson, as weird as it sounds. Spider-Man's new movies are about Peter Parker dealing with Iron Man's legacy.<br /><br />But this leads to a few questions: If millions of fans across the world cried when Iron Man sacrificed himself in order to stop Thanos' genocidal plans making Avengers Endgame the highest grossing movie in history, then... why does the Iron Man ongoing series only sell 30k units per issue?<br /><br />Unlike his movie counterpart, comic Iron Man will never "die", and even if he does, he will just get resurrected in two years or so. Are comicbooks an inherently niche medium or is there something seriously wrong with Marvel and DC's strategies?<br /><br />And since Kuno mentioned DC's treatment of Beast Boy, did you know he was one of the few characters showcased on Cartoon Network's 25th anniversary bumper, where he turns into Jake The Dog from Adventure Time? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7xHpEmwwVI) Therefore, does Beast Boy belong more to Cartoon Network than DC Comics? Legally he doesn't, but to the general audiences, maybe he does.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-45900367636316680042019-12-12T20:17:13.228-05:002019-12-12T20:17:13.228-05:00Hi Kuno, Thanks for your remarks on this and other...Hi Kuno, Thanks for your remarks on this and other posts. I wonder if the only way to deal with these neglected characters is in new media, where they may be more freedom, television, animation, video games and so on.LC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-74799404724518693302019-11-01T20:12:14.847-04:002019-11-01T20:12:14.847-04:00Terra is alive in the new continuity though,it see...Terra is alive in the new continuity though,it seems.So maybe she has a shot. Though with the directions the old Titans(even the originals...)have taken...apparently they made Wally West the murderer(!)in Heroes in Crisis.A mass-murderer of heroes,some of them(Gnarrk(revived just to be killed,almost makes me laugh honestly,in a weird way),Hotspot,even Roy Harper is dead)Titans.Dick now goes by Ric and has amnesia.Gar and Raven are de-aged,Donna Troy has two new origin stories,and so on.<br />I already shared my thoughts on your continuity on another post.I agree about your conclusions with the Judas Contract,and in fact you highlight a lot of the problems that JC adaptations face:they don't build up Terra enough.The 2003 cartoon Terra was barely on the team,this one had the same problem,and her relationship with Beast Boy wasn't explored much either.<br />And about Gar Logan and him being a ''legacy character'',well,he has the worst of it,I think.All legacy characters are non-existent or demoted,but I think Logan has some of the worst luck,because unlike Dick Grayson or Wally West he isn't connected to a major DC hero,but to the Doom Patrol,a DC team that's not that well-known or major sellers.So if those characters are demoted,then Logan was for a long time not even connected to the DP.Now it has been resolved,I think,but even then,I doubt it's going to be explored in depth.It doesn't help that he's been absent from that team for a long time...I still think that if Gar had gotten out of the Titans in the late eighties or so and went back to the DP when Grant Morrison was writing the title,then maybe it could have been explored more,I don't know.Anyways,it's nice to find a fellow fan,BB seems to be one of the least popular Titans of the 80s NTT lineup.A shame,really.Kunohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11796300155877631086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-33745064703000047522018-11-10T02:08:27.934-05:002018-11-10T02:08:27.934-05:00And this is why I stopped reading DC for the past ...And this is why I stopped reading DC for the past few years. The continuity shakeups and endless crossovers are too insane and gimmicky for me. I don't like the lack of respect for continuity and characterization, to the point where they swap out the original character and replace him or her with a completely different person (or people); or they erase a character's whole continuity. Then they make money off fan relief when they revert back to the original status quo. It's a bait and switch, and DC does not deserve money for resorting to rudimentary fourth wall tricks.<br /><br />In the 80s, DC clawed its way back from bankruptcy by hiring new writers who were given a free hand to rework and update the characters, while staying true to the characters' core personalities and histories. It worked really well. Little editorial interference, actual creativity. Today, you would have to stop the crossovers. Stop the continuity BS. Restore the core DC universe. Stop focusing so much on the trinity and especially Batman, and revive the C-list characters and give them more depth.<br /><br />Good luck with that. I'm not sure DC will manage it in my lifetime. I'm serious.LC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-24658519844517167432018-11-02T23:07:44.824-04:002018-11-02T23:07:44.824-04:00From what I've been reading from other people&...From what I've been reading from other people's reaction apparently DC nowadays says that The Judas Contract happened...but to the original 60s team instead of TNTT, so Gar was never a part of it. N52 TT probably isn't even canon at this point (Tim Drake has never met anyone named Conner and I don't think they ever bothered to explain why BB went from red to green). DC refuses to knowledge TNTT but Raven and Cyborg have apparently always been good friends according to Metal, although in Cyborg's solo series in Rebirth he has clearly never met Beast Boy. Does Gar even have a connection to the Doom Patrol? Or anything of his character aside from being comic relief? But I wouldn't worry, I'm sure things will improve for the Titans! Especially now that 4 of them have been killed in...the first issue...of Heroes in Crisis, AKA completely-not-Identity Crisis II, which we all know is just gonna end with Harley Quinn saving everyone or something.Leancarp700https://www.blogger.com/profile/10249961747505774034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-38675962906263132682017-04-30T18:18:18.336-04:002017-04-30T18:18:18.336-04:00I agree that Perez over time had much more integri...I agree that Perez over time had much more integrity wrt those characters than Wolfman. Wolfman kept working on the Titans much longer than he should have, with the result that he spent the late 80s and 90s ruining his earlier work. The series should have been handed to different creators around 1987, with Wolfman's best work intact. I agree about that Wolfman's view of Deathstroke was misguided. He made unfortunate decisions with other characters. Wally and Raven. Steve Dayton. Dick Grayson and Koriand'r (not entirely his fault because the Bat editors had a say in that). I appreciated how in Wolfman's worst years, when he was ruining all the other Titans, somehow Roy Harper got a break. But DC made up for that later in that horrific mini a few years ago, followed by Deathstroke's Titans.<br /><br />As a writer myself, the JC and Wolfman's other decisions were lessons on how to create incredible stories and characters, followed by caveats, a warning on how a writer could ruin his/her own story. As a creator, I agree overall that Perez had a lighter touch and treated his characters with more care. I still think his Wonder Woman revamp was wonderful and own that whole run. LC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-5052021411106409132017-04-30T00:01:30.896-04:002017-04-30T00:01:30.896-04:00Actually, he's been singing that tune for a lo...Actually, he's been singing that tune for a long time. Here's a quote from a magazine interview:<br /><br />“Actually, I never thought of Deathstroke as a villain or bad guy. I thought of him as someone who was put into a bad situation and couldn’t find a way out so he kept getting deeper and deeper into the hole he was digging around himself. I think one of the best Deathstroke stories was one I did in Titans called ‘Shades of Gray’ where he and Changeling go to a diner and just talk. I think that showed who Deathstroke was. I’m not comfortable with him being a mega-villain. As for how he acted after Terra—well, he was in the early process of redeeming himself. I think of Terra as the manipulator, not Deathstroke. She was his means of getting out of the HIVE quagmire he was in. He was her means at getting revenge against the world.”<br /><br />At the risk of sounding cliche, I just can't with this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-37275726060477413552017-04-29T23:50:24.857-04:002017-04-29T23:50:24.857-04:00Terra was a non-character to George Perez too, but...Terra was a non-character to George Perez too, but I cut Perez some more slack because at least he also understood exactly who Deathstroke was, what kind of a person he was, and as soon as Perez left the title following the Terror of Trigon arc, Wolfman ran loose with his own (mis)interpretation of the character.<br /><br />Seriously, if you have the Judas Contract DTV Blu-Ray, check out the bonus feature on Deathstroke. You have Perez correctly pointing out that he is a villain who justifies his evil deeds to others and in his own head to get around that they are in fact EVIL deeds, and saying how he had wanted to just end the character in the Judas Contract arc and never expected him to continue on to the point of still being around today.......and then you have Wolfman, who is saying the most asinine things like outright admitting that he never saw Deathstroke as a villain but as a victim of circumstance and that he's so honorable and that he's caught in a situation he doesn't want to be in and can't get out of it, like he has no choice. Oh, and wording his relationship with Terra as if SHE was seducing HIM, and the real tragedy is how low it's bringing HIM.<br /><br />I credit how good the New Teen Titans was mostly on Perez now, Wolfman disgusts me that much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-69203250025649088382017-04-25T16:17:36.818-04:002017-04-25T16:17:36.818-04:00Hi Anon,
The Judas Contract absolutely had Nazi t...Hi Anon,<br /><br />The Judas Contract absolutely had Nazi themes in it; but that has been removed in the past 25 years.<br /><br />Read Terra's whole continuity on this blog, because I explain it and give you scans from the old issues. Go back and read the original Doom Patrol comics, read NTT #13-15, the hunt for the Doom Patrol. Read the original Outsiders comics, which tied the Markov royal family to Nazis, much later retconned to say they fought Nazis. But originally they were pro-Nazi. There was a whole arc in the Outsiders about this, summarized here.<br /><br />Check the supervillain General Zahl (his name means 'Number' as in concentration camp tattoos ). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Zahl <br /><br />These stories were written in the 1960s-1980s when WWII was much closer in living memory. That understanding of WWII has faded a lot, especially since 2000. Later retellings of the Judas Contract scrub this element. So the original built-in reasons why Terra kills herself are missing a crucial aspect.<br /><br />But if you recall that element, it suddenly makes sense why Terra (in the original JC) is ranting right before she dies about being a superhuman and superior to normal humans. So she wants to be with Deathstroke because she feels he ruthlessly accepts his superhumanism and all it entails. She looks down on Gar because he still cares about normal people. This was Wolfman's big reveal, the core of her madness. I don't feel he pulled it off very well. It doesn't work. The problem with this story is - unlike X-Men and Magneto - the Holocaust theme was not front and centre and not clearly acknowledged. <br /><br />Because Wolfman intended Terra to die, really the Judas Contract is not about her. It's about Gar Logan as a legacy character - and you have to ask yourself, what is the Doom Patrol legacy? In NTT #13-15, it shows Gar and Robotman fighting General Zahl and Madame Rouge; they're fighting a resurgence of Nazi ideology. This story was the prologue to the JC. <br /><br />The JC is also about serious, hidden problems in the Bat legacy, but that is a separate issue. Again, if you understand that Terra was, in Wolfman's mind, a non-character or a means to an end, you realize he was just trying to use her as a plot device to develop Gar and Dick - and Deathstroke (ugh). The story wasn't supposed to be about her, and you can see that in his dismal writing after, and other DC writers after, who kept trying to scrub her out. But Terra as a character was much more substantial than he or other writers bargained for.<br /><br />Gwen Stacy was a plot device too - a girlfriend character who was a means to an end, to teach the hero a lesson and drive home a point *about Peter* not about Gwen. But again, there were problems with using a female character so transparently like that, as a perpetual victim-ghost, in Gwen's case; or, in Terra's case, a mouthpiece for an idea.LC Douglasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04250961297714038453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2905155363976375938.post-69241299826094635432017-04-25T12:42:23.448-04:002017-04-25T12:42:23.448-04:00So wait, "The Judas Contract" was suppos...So wait, "The Judas Contract" was supposed to be a Nazi allegory? If that's so, then no, I don't accept the conclusion since that makes no damn sense. Hardly anyone who has even read that story is going to walk away thinking of Nazis, only that mentally ill teenage girls are trouble.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com